Difference between revisions of "Accessibility/Meeting Notes 2018-06-11"

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==== Meeting Notes ====
 
==== Meeting Notes ====
−
* Introductions
+
===== Introductions =====
−
** LibreOffice group is happening; there is money to hold a hackfest
+
* Everyone introduced themselves
 +
** Marc Paré says LibreOffice group is happening; there is money to hold a hackfest
 
** Also planning a campaign for LibreOffice, not much awareness in North America
 
** Also planning a campaign for LibreOffice, not much awareness in North America
−
** Maybe 160 million users
+
** LO has maybe 160 million users
−
 
 
−
 
 
−
 
 
  
 
===== AODA =====
 
===== AODA =====
−
* "Acessibility
+
* '''Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act'''
 
* 2/3 way into the mandate
 
* 2/3 way into the mandate
 
** But not even 1/3 of the way there
 
** But not even 1/3 of the way there
Line 33: Line 31:
 
** Information and Communications (eg. web sites)
 
** Information and Communications (eg. web sites)
 
*** What standards exist?  How do we become compliant?
 
*** What standards exist?  How do we become compliant?
 +
*** [https://www.ontario.ca/page/how-make-websites-accessible How To Make Websites Accessible]
 
** Transportation (eg. transit)
 
** Transportation (eg. transit)
−
*** TTC is under fire for transgressions (show video for York University station)
+
*** TTC is under fire for transgressions  
 +
{{#evu:https://youtube.com/watch?v=y7111_apq48|dimensions=640|alignment=center}}
  
  
Line 44: Line 44:
 
** Will these standards improve by 2025, or will these inadequacies continue to exist.
 
** Will these standards improve by 2025, or will these inadequacies continue to exist.
  
 +
===== Discussion =====
  
 +
* The initial AODA standards were applied to government regulated organizations
 +
** eg. banks were amongst the first employers to apply accessibility standards
 +
** But the problem is that disabilities were self-declared, and so
 +
** Some disabilities do not require accommodation, so some people may have been hired in preference to some people that did require accommodation (cheaper to provide minimal accommodation). But the stats show that an equal number of people with disabilities were accommodated, no matter how slight or severe.
  
  
Line 61: Line 66:
 
* Government should be giving us tools to test websites
 
* Government should be giving us tools to test websites
 
** There are 109 tools listed on https://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/
 
** There are 109 tools listed on https://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/
−
** It should be easier to make an accessible website without javascript
+
** It should be easier to make an accessible website without Javascript
−
*** But it is possible to make an entirely inaccessible website without javascript
+
*** But it is possible to make an entirely inaccessible website without Javascript
  
  
Line 71: Line 76:
  
  
−
* Content, semantics, layout & presentation, behaviour
+
* A website has four layers of functionality, the first needs to be present before the second, &c.
−
** Javascript should be for behaviour, but sometimes generates content (making the page inaccessible)
+
** Content, semantics, layout & presentation, behaviour
 +
** Javascript implements website behaviour, but sometimes is used to generate content (making the page inaccessible)
  
  
 
* Javascript makes response faster, but sometimes inaccessible
 
* Javascript makes response faster, but sometimes inaccessible
−
** People don't want to wait for approvals, or error responses
+
** People don't want to wait for form completion  (eg. loan approvals), or error responses
 
** Complex websites can have many different parts,  
 
** Complex websites can have many different parts,  
 
** The counterpart, many websites load so many libraries that it takes too long to load.
 
** The counterpart, many websites load so many libraries that it takes too long to load.
 
*** "Lazy loading" makes content available only when the page scrolls there
 
*** "Lazy loading" makes content available only when the page scrolls there
−
**** eg. the new CBC website
+
**** eg. the new CBC website (unusable on older browsers or slower computers)
−
 
 
−
 
 
  
  
 
* LibreOffice has very few accessibility programmers, nobody wants to work on accessiblity issues
 
* LibreOffice has very few accessibility programmers, nobody wants to work on accessiblity issues
−
** So can LO be used in an accessible environment?
+
** So can LO be used in an environment where accessibility is required?
−
 
 
−
 
 
  
  
−
* The ADP program only allows refresh of assistive devices once every five years\
+
* The Assistive Devices Program only allows refresh of assistive devices once every five years
 
** 5 year old technology doesn't work with slick, dynamic websites
 
** 5 year old technology doesn't work with slick, dynamic websites
−
** Only covers 75% of the cost for the minimum device, fancier devices need to be fully paid for
+
** Only covers 75% of the cost for the minimum device, anything fancier than minimum needs to be fully paid for
  
  
Line 101: Line 103:
  
  
−
* People who need accomodation tend to be lower income, and the good jobs are not available to those who need more accomodation than others.
+
* People who need accommodation tend to be lower income, and the good jobs are not available to those who need more accommodation than others.
  
−
* Worried about the new provincial government; will the dream of a fully accesible Ontario be realized by 2025? Probably not.
+
 
 +
* Worried about the new provincial government; will the dream of a fully accessible Ontario be realized by 2025? Probably not.
  
  
 
* Are there fines? Only through human rights complaints.  There is no "accessibility police" to quickly levy a fine.
 
* Are there fines? Only through human rights complaints.  There is no "accessibility police" to quickly levy a fine.
 
** Human Rights can require compliance, but there may not be much adherence.
 
** Human Rights can require compliance, but there may not be much adherence.
−
** At the start (2000?) there were ethical orgs that made themselves compliant; now, not so much.
+
** At the start (2000?) there were ethical organizations that made themselves compliant; now, not so much.
−
** Some organizations rent their facilities, so who is responsible for accessibility? Owner or business?
+
** Some organizations/businesses rent their facilities, so who is responsible for accessibility? Owner or renter?
  
  
−
* Wheelchair users and Self-serve gas stations: OADA compliance says you can call 24hrs in advance to have someone pump your gas.
+
* Wheelchair users and Self-serve gas stations: AODA compliance says you can call 24hrs in advance to have someone pump your gas.
 +
** That may be compliant, but it's not practical
  
  
−
* For tech sites, will it be like GDPR?  
+
* For tech sites, will it be like GDPR? (General Data Protection Regulation (European Union))
 
** Will sites go out of business rather than become compliant with AODA?
 
** Will sites go out of business rather than become compliant with AODA?
 
** Will all sites have a popup disclaimer saying they're compliant?
 
** Will all sites have a popup disclaimer saying they're compliant?
 
** How about other international sites?  Maybe having international laws will force Ontario to be accessible faster than the AODA
 
** How about other international sites?  Maybe having international laws will force Ontario to be accessible faster than the AODA
 
** There needs to be some international framework to standardize  
 
** There needs to be some international framework to standardize  
−
*** OADA may have come from a UN standard
+
*** AODA may have come from a UN standard
−
** BC is far more accessible (advocacy from Rick Hansen)
+
** British Columbia is far more accessible (through advocacy from Rick Hansen)
  
  
Line 129: Line 133:
 
* The pressure right now is to make services cheap;  
 
* The pressure right now is to make services cheap;  
 
** Pressure to get products out before the competition means that accessibility corners are cut, possibly in violation of standards and laws
 
** Pressure to get products out before the competition means that accessibility corners are cut, possibly in violation of standards and laws
 +
  
 
* Universal design principles
 
* Universal design principles
 
** Visitability for physical access isn't enough, but it's a step in the right direction.
 
** Visitability for physical access isn't enough, but it's a step in the right direction.
 
** There is a market for accessible homes, higher resale value for accessible homes
 
** There is a market for accessible homes, higher resale value for accessible homes
−
** But there is no resale market for digital properies
+
** But there is no resale market for digital properties
 
*** But there is value in EPUB books, because the standards allow portability and derivative works; more likely to be useful in future version of the text
 
*** But there is value in EPUB books, because the standards allow portability and derivative works; more likely to be useful in future version of the text
−
*** Sometimes there is just convenience in adding some accessibility, but not an end goal
+
*** Sometimes there is just convenience in adding some accessibility, but accessibility is not an end goal
  
 +
 +
* What is ARIA?
 +
** '''Accessible Rich Internet Applications'''
 +
** https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/ARIA
 +
** Metadata added to other standards to enable accessibility.
  
  
 
===== Sample sites =====
 
===== Sample sites =====
−
* The Government web site is Javascript dependent
+
* The Government AODA web site is Javascript dependent: https://www.ontario.ca/page/accessibility-rules-businesses-and-non-profits
−
* The WAVE validator is also Javascript dependent
+
* The WAVE validator is also Javascript dependent: https://wave.webaim.org/
 
** The WAVE validator cannot parse the Government web site because the content is generated by Javascript
 
** The WAVE validator cannot parse the Government web site because the content is generated by Javascript
  
−
* The initial AODA standards were applied to government regulated organizations
+
* Bank of Montreal: https://www.bmo.com/main/personal
−
** eg. banks were amongst the first employers to apply accessibility standards
+
** WAVE analysis: 5 errors, 58 alerts http://wave.webaim.org/report#/https://www.bmo.com/main/personal
−
** But the problem is that disabilities were self-declared, and so
+
* Royal Bank: https://www.rbc.com/about-rbc.html
−
** Some disabilities do not require accomodation, so some people may have been hired in preference to some people that did require accomodation (cheaper to provide minimal accomodation). But the stats show that an equal number of people with disabilities were accomodated, no matter how slight or severe.
+
** WAVE analysis: 1 error, 9 alerts http://wave.webaim.org/report#/https://www.rbc.com/about-rbc.html
−
 
 
−
 
 
  
 
Back to: [[Accessibility]]
 
Back to: [[Accessibility]]
  
 
[[Category:KWNPSA Meeting Notes]]
 
[[Category:KWNPSA Meeting Notes]]

Latest revision as of 16:53, 12 June 2018

Accessibility

Date
Monday, 11 June 2018 from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
Meetup Event
https://www.meetup.com/NetSquared-Kitchener-Waterloo/events/245691598/
Location
The Chapel in First United Church, 16 William Street West, Waterloo, Ontario Map
Event Announcement
Accessibility/Announcement 2018-06-11

Is your Non-Profit organization accessible? Can your website contents be read by a text-to-speech synthesizer? By a Braille reader? With a screen magnifier? Without Javascript? In a text-only browser? Does it pass the WAVE Web Accessibility Tool validator? Does your podcast have a text transcription? Is your video described? What other accessibility tools does a SysAdmin need to manage? What legal requirements for accessibility are there?

Join other Kitcher-Waterloo Non-Profit System Administrators for examples, demonstrations and our usual round-table discussion, and perhaps a guest presentation! Everyone is welcome, you don't have to be a Non-Profit System Administrator to attend.

--Bob Jonkman & Marc Paré


Resources

Meeting Notes

Introductions
  • Everyone introduced themselves
    • Marc Paré says LibreOffice group is happening; there is money to hold a hackfest
    • Also planning a campaign for LibreOffice, not much awareness in North America
    • LO has maybe 160 million users
AODA
  • Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act
  • 2/3 way into the mandate
    • But not even 1/3 of the way there
    • McGuinty govt in 1999 claimed that we would be fully accessible by 2025
    • But not enough attention or funding supplied
    • Only recourse is Human Rights claims


  • Applies to
    • Customer service (people providing cust serv must have dignity, independence, integration, &c.)
    • Information and Communications (eg. web sites)
    • Transportation (eg. transit)
      • TTC is under fire for transgressions


  • Many accessibility features are put in place that don't provide accessibility (eg. new door requires automatic opener, but still has a step up and no ramp)


  • These are "minimum" standards,
    • eg. Elections Ontario required polling stations to exceed minimum standards, recognizing that the standards aren't adequate
    • Will these standards improve by 2025, or will these inadequacies continue to exist.
Discussion
  • The initial AODA standards were applied to government regulated organizations
    • eg. banks were amongst the first employers to apply accessibility standards
    • But the problem is that disabilities were self-declared, and so
    • Some disabilities do not require accommodation, so some people may have been hired in preference to some people that did require accommodation (cheaper to provide minimal accommodation). But the stats show that an equal number of people with disabilities were accommodated, no matter how slight or severe.


  • "People aren't against being accessible, they're against the cost of being accessible."


  • eg. accessible restaurant with accessible washroom, but no way to get from restaurant to washroom.
    • Some buildings cannot be modified to have elevators
    • Buildings with historical or heritage designation are exempt


  • Some standards apply to the customers of the establishment, not the employees or employers (might be individual accommodation for employee)
    • this is why internal websites don't have to be accessible


  • Government should be giving us tools to test websites
    • There are 109 tools listed on https://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tools/
    • It should be easier to make an accessible website without Javascript
      • But it is possible to make an entirely inaccessible website without Javascript


  • Javascript reduces the load on the server, by performing data validation on entry, rather than on submission
    • Javascript is an opensource library
      • But there are many proprietary libraries that aren't accessible, and many opensource libraries that are modified making them inaccessible
    • How many coders can be hired to write accessible code? Cheaper to use a Javascript library than hire coders or buy servers


  • A website has four layers of functionality, the first needs to be present before the second, &c.
    • Content, semantics, layout & presentation, behaviour
    • Javascript implements website behaviour, but sometimes is used to generate content (making the page inaccessible)


  • Javascript makes response faster, but sometimes inaccessible
    • People don't want to wait for form completion (eg. loan approvals), or error responses
    • Complex websites can have many different parts,
    • The counterpart, many websites load so many libraries that it takes too long to load.
      • "Lazy loading" makes content available only when the page scrolls there
        • eg. the new CBC website (unusable on older browsers or slower computers)


  • LibreOffice has very few accessibility programmers, nobody wants to work on accessiblity issues
    • So can LO be used in an environment where accessibility is required?


  • The Assistive Devices Program only allows refresh of assistive devices once every five years
    • 5 year old technology doesn't work with slick, dynamic websites
    • Only covers 75% of the cost for the minimum device, anything fancier than minimum needs to be fully paid for


  • Is there funding to become compliant with AODA? Needs to be done within 7 years (2025)
    • Some funding for private homes (but only the front door, even if the side door is more practical)
    • Don't know if funding is available for technology


  • People who need accommodation tend to be lower income, and the good jobs are not available to those who need more accommodation than others.


  • Worried about the new provincial government; will the dream of a fully accessible Ontario be realized by 2025? Probably not.


  • Are there fines? Only through human rights complaints. There is no "accessibility police" to quickly levy a fine.
    • Human Rights can require compliance, but there may not be much adherence.
    • At the start (2000?) there were ethical organizations that made themselves compliant; now, not so much.
    • Some organizations/businesses rent their facilities, so who is responsible for accessibility? Owner or renter?


  • Wheelchair users and Self-serve gas stations: AODA compliance says you can call 24hrs in advance to have someone pump your gas.
    • That may be compliant, but it's not practical


  • For tech sites, will it be like GDPR? (General Data Protection Regulation (European Union))
    • Will sites go out of business rather than become compliant with AODA?
    • Will all sites have a popup disclaimer saying they're compliant?
    • How about other international sites? Maybe having international laws will force Ontario to be accessible faster than the AODA
    • There needs to be some international framework to standardize
      • AODA may have come from a UN standard
    • British Columbia is far more accessible (through advocacy from Rick Hansen)


  • As people age into disability, there will be more pressure to achieve accessibility


  • The pressure right now is to make services cheap;
    • Pressure to get products out before the competition means that accessibility corners are cut, possibly in violation of standards and laws


  • Universal design principles
    • Visitability for physical access isn't enough, but it's a step in the right direction.
    • There is a market for accessible homes, higher resale value for accessible homes
    • But there is no resale market for digital properties
      • But there is value in EPUB books, because the standards allow portability and derivative works; more likely to be useful in future version of the text
      • Sometimes there is just convenience in adding some accessibility, but accessibility is not an end goal



Sample sites

Back to: Accessibility

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