Difference between revisions of "Mail Management/Meeting Notes 2017-07-17"

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−
* Obsolete? Alternatives to E-mail:
+
==== Alternatives to E-mail ====
−
** Aren't we all on Slack by now?
+
* Aren't we all on [https://slack.com/ Slack] by now?
−
*** Slack has some free options, also paid ones
+
** Slack has some free options, also paid ones
−
*** eg. voice and video options
+
** eg. voice and video options
−
*** E-mail threads have messages and reply text, but slack has just the continuous stream-of-consciousness
+
** E-mail threads have messages and reply text, but slack has just the continuous stream-of-consciousness
−
*** Bots: "What's my schedule on Thursday?", "Bot, book me lunch with Kirk on Tuesday"
+
** Bots: "What's my schedule on Thursday?", "Bot, book me lunch with Kirk on Tuesday"
−
**** Regular expression bots, "human in the loop" bots, and "IBM Watson" hyperintelligent bots
+
*** Regular expression bots, "human in the loop" bots, and "IBM Watson" hyperintelligent bots
−
**** Bots really made it, turned Slack into a marketable product (opened the platform, API)
+
*** Bots really made it, turned Slack into a marketable product (opened the platform, API)
−
*** But what happened to Google Wave and Google Buzz?
+
** But whatever happened to Google Wave and Google Buzz?
−
*** Is there a Slack-to-Email bridge? Maybe on Rocketchat
+
** Is there a Slack-to-Email bridge? Maybe on Rocket.Chat
−
**** But who stores your chats? streams? e-mail?
+
*** Privacy and datamanagment concerns: who stores your chats? streams? e-mail?
−
*** Spammers on Slack? It's a closed environment, you know your spammer (unlike e-mail)
+
** Spammers on Slack? It's a closed environment, you know your spammer (unlike e-mail)
−
*** But there can be public "Talk to a sales rep" windows
+
** But there can be public "Talk to a sales rep" windows
 +
* [https://www.kik.com/ Kik] also opened their platform
 +
* [https://rocket.chat/ Rocket.Chat] - "Slack-alike"
 +
** web client & phone apps
 +
** e-mail gateway, LDAP gateway
 +
** Drag'n'drop filesharing
 +
** Self-hosted, on Ubuntu as a Snap
 +
** Self-hosted, so you have control over your own data
 +
** [https://kwvoip.ca kwvoip.ca] may set this up...
 +
* XMPP - Cisco bought Jabber.com (now [http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/unified-communications/jabber/index.html Cisco Jabber])
 +
* [https://matrix.org/ Matrix] / [https://about.riot.im/ Riot]
  
−
** Kik also opened their platform
+
==== Ease-of-Use ====
−
 
+
E-mail is so easy to use, people use it for everything
−
** Rocketchat - "Slack-alike"
+
* File storage
−
*** web client & phone apps
+
* Instant messaging
−
*** e-mail gateway, LDAP gateway
+
* Archival storage
−
*** Drag'n'drop filesharing
+
* Operating System?
−
*** Self-hosted, on Ubuntu as a Snap
+
** Heard of people who use git as a mail repository
−
*** Self-hosted, so you have control over your own data
 
−
*** kwvoip.ca may set this up...
 
−
 
 
−
** XMPP - Cisco bought Jabber.org
 
−
** Matrix/Riot
 
−
 
 
−
* E-mail is so easy to use, people use it for everything
 
−
** File storage
 
−
** Instant messaging
 
−
** Archival storage
 
−
** Operating System?
 
−
*** Heard of people who use git as a mail repository
 
  
 +
==== Difficulty-of-Admin ====
 
* Struggle with Exchange and Outlook
 
* Struggle with Exchange and Outlook
 
** Weird problems, eg. indexes
 
** Weird problems, eg. indexes
−
** Large systems are constrained only by the time and effort of the SysAdmin
 
−
*** Or sufficient funds to purchase vendor support
 
 
** Would weird problems like indexing exist on Office365?
 
** Would weird problems like indexing exist on Office365?
−
***  
+
* Large systems are constrained only by the time and effort of the SysAdmin
 +
** Or sufficient funds to purchase vendor support
  
 +
==== Spam Mitigation ====
 
* Large mail providers silently drop some mail, receivers and senders have no idea it's not delivered
 
* Large mail providers silently drop some mail, receivers and senders have no idea it's not delivered
 +
* Need to bring mail filtering inhouse
 +
** Opinion that the only effective filters are Bayesian filters on content, not geo-blocks, IP-blocks, or domainname-blocks
  
−
*Web clients
+
* DMARC and DKIM (broken for mailing list use)
−
** Horde
 
−
** Squirrel Mail
 
−
** RoundCube
 
−
** Nextcloud mail app (based on Horde)
 
−
 
 
−
 
 
−
** DMARC and DKIM
 
−
** Smarthosts on ISPs
 
  
 
* Dealing with blocklists
 
* Dealing with blocklists
 
** Blocklists are reputation managers
 
** Blocklists are reputation managers
 
** Small orgs sending mail are incorrectly identified as spammers
 
** Small orgs sending mail are incorrectly identified as spammers
−
** Blocklist organizations have no incentive to lift blocks based on the requests of senders (otherwise every spammer would make that request)
+
** Blocklist providers have no incentive to lift blocks based on the requests of senders (otherwise every spammer would make that request)
 
** Recipients of failed messages need to contact their mail providers to stop the mail providers from subscribing to bad blocklists
 
** Recipients of failed messages need to contact their mail providers to stop the mail providers from subscribing to bad blocklists
 +
** Filter provider needs to hold the spam for subsequent retraining (problems with privacy and data control)
  
−
Spam mitigation
+
* Organizations block access to external mail providers
−
* Need to bring mail filtering inhouse
+
** (block ports for SMTP:25, MSP:587, IMAP:143, &c.)
−
* Bayesian filters on content
+
** Must use smarthosts on ISPs
 +
** Web clients to read/send e-mail from external providers
 +
*** [https://www.horde.org/apps/webmail Horde]
 +
*** [https://squirrelmail.org/ Squirrel Mail]
 +
*** [https://roundcube.net/ RoundCube]
 +
*** [https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/mail Nextcloud mail app] (based on Horde)
  
  
 
* New legislation for mass-mail (starting 1 July 2017?)
 
* New legislation for mass-mail (starting 1 July 2017?)
 +
** [http://fightspam.gc.ca/eic/site/030.nsf/eng/home Canada's Law on Spam and Other Electronic Threats - Home - Canada's Anti-Spam Legislation]
 
** Mailing lists? OK for non-commercial organizations that don't sell or solicit funds.
 
** Mailing lists? OK for non-commercial organizations that don't sell or solicit funds.
 
** Fundraising? OK as long as there is a paragraph in the message that this is for fundraising.
 
** Fundraising? OK as long as there is a paragraph in the message that this is for fundraising.
−
* Filter provider needs to hold the spam for subsequent retraining
 
−
 
−
 
  
 
<!-- ==== Four Dash Heading ==== -->
 
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Revision as of 12:45, 18 July 2017

Mail Management

Date
Monday, 17 July 2017 from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
Event Announcement
https://www.meetup.com/NetSquared-Kitchener-Waterloo/events/240752492/
Location
Communitech Jelly Bean Room 1st Floor, 151 Charles Street West, Kitchener, Ontario Map

Is e-mail obsolete? If not, how can we provide e-mail services to our Non-profit organizations? Do we treat internal, staff e-mail differently from our clients' e-mail? How do we communicate with large groups? What mailing list services are there? Do we just give all our e-mail to Google and Microsoft? Maybe we can use the e-mail from our ISPs? They advertise "unlimited mailboxes", right? Do we run our own e-mail servers? But then, how do we deal with spam, blocklists, and e-mail providers that don't play fair? And, is it "E-mail" or "Email"?

KWNPSA is in the process of setting up our own e-mailing lists, and we have plenty of e-mail system administrators in the group. Looking forward to a lively Round Table discussion!

--Bob Jonkman & Marc Paré


Alternatives to E-mail

  • Aren't we all on Slack by now?
    • Slack has some free options, also paid ones
    • eg. voice and video options
    • E-mail threads have messages and reply text, but slack has just the continuous stream-of-consciousness
    • Bots: "What's my schedule on Thursday?", "Bot, book me lunch with Kirk on Tuesday"
      • Regular expression bots, "human in the loop" bots, and "IBM Watson" hyperintelligent bots
      • Bots really made it, turned Slack into a marketable product (opened the platform, API)
    • But whatever happened to Google Wave and Google Buzz?
    • Is there a Slack-to-Email bridge? Maybe on Rocket.Chat
      • Privacy and datamanagment concerns: who stores your chats? streams? e-mail?
    • Spammers on Slack? It's a closed environment, you know your spammer (unlike e-mail)
    • But there can be public "Talk to a sales rep" windows
  • Kik also opened their platform
  • Rocket.Chat - "Slack-alike"
    • web client & phone apps
    • e-mail gateway, LDAP gateway
    • Drag'n'drop filesharing
    • Self-hosted, on Ubuntu as a Snap
    • Self-hosted, so you have control over your own data
    • kwvoip.ca may set this up...
  • XMPP - Cisco bought Jabber.com (now Cisco Jabber)
  • Matrix / Riot

Ease-of-Use

E-mail is so easy to use, people use it for everything

  • File storage
  • Instant messaging
  • Archival storage
  • Operating System?
    • Heard of people who use git as a mail repository

Difficulty-of-Admin

  • Struggle with Exchange and Outlook
    • Weird problems, eg. indexes
    • Would weird problems like indexing exist on Office365?
  • Large systems are constrained only by the time and effort of the SysAdmin
    • Or sufficient funds to purchase vendor support

Spam Mitigation

  • Large mail providers silently drop some mail, receivers and senders have no idea it's not delivered
  • Need to bring mail filtering inhouse
    • Opinion that the only effective filters are Bayesian filters on content, not geo-blocks, IP-blocks, or domainname-blocks
  • DMARC and DKIM (broken for mailing list use)
  • Dealing with blocklists
    • Blocklists are reputation managers
    • Small orgs sending mail are incorrectly identified as spammers
    • Blocklist providers have no incentive to lift blocks based on the requests of senders (otherwise every spammer would make that request)
    • Recipients of failed messages need to contact their mail providers to stop the mail providers from subscribing to bad blocklists
    • Filter provider needs to hold the spam for subsequent retraining (problems with privacy and data control)
  • Organizations block access to external mail providers


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